LiveTL Update + My “Thanks”

UPDATE: Thanks for the comment link. LiveTL will be Thursday June 18th @ 9pm CDT then.

My usual sources for early raws have came up dry thus far this week, so Ch67 is on hold until such time as I can source a JP raw for the chapter. Also, remember that Volume 6 is coming out on June 19th! So let’s continue our support of Plumpness!

Also, my “thanks” to the anon using my rough translations to flood the aggregators with shit releases sourced from JP>CN>Thai raws before finally slapping the English onto them in MS Paint. I now know what the Telephone game looks like with images. Way to insult the author’s hard work as well.


Added by ThunderCloud:
I’d like to ask the person who’s taking our rough translation and slapping them on Chinese/Thai/whatever raws to cease and desist and for users not to upload those chapters to Batoto. Thanks.
Here’s a comparison (spoiler warning) of the raw page to the cluster-fuck for those interested.


Added by ThunderCloud:

Anon: I honestly don’t see why this is such a big problem.

  • The quality of the crap release is a massive disservice to author’s excellent work.
  • The quality of the crap release decreases the reader’s enjoyment of the manga.
  • If someone’s already read the crap release, they are less likely to read our release. Even if they do, they’ll not enjoy it as much.
  • Most manga aggregation sites will not update with our release when it’s ready, which leads to less exposure.
  • Knowing that less people will care about our release is not exactly encouraging.
  • It’s extremely rude to use our rough script without permission to release a competing product.

tl;dr, it triggers me.


Added by ThunderCloud:

Few points I’d like to clarify:

  • I don’t think of Boku Girl as “our project, hands off!” If anyone / any group competent enough were to take over, I’d personally be totally cool with that.
  • I feel upset when a series I love gets a butchered scanslation. This is not confined just to series I’m working on. For example, I petitioned FwPA to pick up Koe no Katachi because that other release was shit.
  • I derive joy from knowing that readers are enjoying a high quality scanslation of an excellent manga. “joy of being able to spread the word of the series”? Are you ****ing serious? Butchering the 47th chapter isn’t going to help spread the word. What Aereus does (doing LiveTL threads and generating interest) is what spreads the words.
  • >>If someone’s already read the crap release, they are less likely to read our release. Even if they do, they’ll not enjoy it as much.
    >>Most manga aggregation sites will not update with our release when it’s ready, which leads to less exposure.
    >>Knowing that less people will care about our release is not exactly encouraging.
    >If you guys handled this admirably, you would have just cut your losses, yet you guys are conspicuously stating that you want fans to stroke your dicks egos.

    The more people that read the crap release -> The less people will get full enjoyment from reading Boku Girl. That was the main point I was trying to make. Is it surprising that demand drives supply? Do you keep uploading videos onto Youtube with 0 views? Knowing that people enjoy something I put a lot of effort into makes me happy and motivates me. If that makes me egotistic, then sure, call me egotistic.
  • If my use of “cease and desist” in the post triggered you, you can just read it as “stop being an asshole” instead.

27 thoughts on “LiveTL Update + My “Thanks”

  1. Reader

    You should work faster on actual Releases then.

    Is it that hard to get an Release of acceptable Quality from magazine Raws in an acceptable time frame?

    Reply
    1. People suck.

      That’s really nifty of you, Reader! That is, if I understand you correctly…

      ‘Cause it sounds like if you had a quality raw, you would have the time and skills to get it cleaned up, redrawn, typeset, edited, etc in no time. That would certainly make sense of why you don’t understand that this team isn’t up to your speed. If this is the case, I would hope you’re willing to lead by example.

      Or at least, that’s what I would hope. If not, then I’m really confused: Are you seriously complaining that the people who care enough to give our shared community the benefit of their time and skills… should be giving more? (o_O)

      (Or, almost as plausibly, are you actually Dilbert’s boss in disguise?)

      Reply
  2. Janime6

    I translated the omake in volume 4 with the assistance of Google Translate, Bing Translate, and my own tiny knowledge of Japanese (so hell if I know how truly accurate it is) and uploaded it to batoto. If you guys do it, I’d be more than happy to remove it. Well I’d remove it if you wanted me to anyway, but you haven’t done any of the omakes and that one in particular caught my interest (Mei titties) so I wanted to TL and typeset it for my fellow Boku Girl fans.

    Reply
    1. ThunderCloud

      I was totally cool with that:
      1) You did it on your own without borrowing from us.
      2) You didn’t do a horrible job. (I’ve only skimmed one or two pages.)

      Now that the script’s caught up to the cleans, maybe it’s be a good time for me to go back and do the scripts for the omake next. Please look forward to reading our version of vol 4 omake too!

      Reply
  3. Anonymous

    With all due respect, I really wish you guys would have known that this was inevitable. Anything you post in the internet can be stolen, and the fact that you guys are whining about it instead of accepting the mistake here and getting over it makes you guys look bad. I’m not saying this to spite you guys or your fanboys, because I myself appreciate the amount of work you put in. But really, at the end of the day, you’re all the same pirates.

    No one has rights to Boku Girl instead of the author, and the sense of entitlement that you and your cult following demonstrate is really hypocritical. What makes you think the author appreciates your releases in the first place? Scanlating is illegal.

    >Way to insult the author’s hard work as well.
    >The quality of the crap release is a massive disservice to author’s excellent work.

    And what happened to the pure simple joy of being able to spread the word of this series to others? That was how it felt when you guys started translating and scanlating the series, to be honest. But now:

    >If someone’s already read the crap release, they are less likely to read our release. Even if they do, they’ll not enjoy it as much.
    >Most manga aggregation sites will not update with our release when it’s ready, which leads to less exposure.
    >Knowing that less people will care about our release is not exactly encouraging.

    If you guys handled this admirably, you would have just cut your losses, yet you guys are conspicuously stating that you want fans to stroke your dicks egos.

    Correct me if anything I just said is wrong, but this is what it feels like. Again, I’m not trying to spite you, because I also enjoyed the weekly translations on /a/–those times were always fun. I simply think that the occasional drama that happens, like when someone else translates the raws first or like this recent event, is getting out of hand.

    Reply
    1. HDM

      It boils down to this, plain and simple: plagiarism.

      Using TLs without permission is plagiarism.

      Plagiarism isn’t acceptable.

      It fucking sucks when people plagiarize your work.

      Simple enough?

      Reply
      1. TakahashiFan

        Technically so are douijin’s, AMVs and other Otaku-isms that we engage in on the web. Over as here the approach is, its allowed by the auther/publishing co. so long as the following conditions are met (us Otaku are well aware of these) 1st: it does not negatively effect the bottom lines of either the author or publishing company. 2nd it does not detract from the original work. 3rd it increases the audience and exposure for both parties (mangaka/publisher) thereby positively effecting the bottom lines of both author/publisher.
        Additionally, regarding “Fair Use” Young Jump magazine falls under the same grouping as other “Open Source” publications. Meaning that quoting, translations and other eta’s are fair game once the magazine is released. (This is why you don’t need permission to quote/copy/redistribute such things. If not, then talk radio is in BIG trouble) Plagiarism is taking someone else’s work and claiming it for your own.
        A piss poor rough translation pair with piss poor raws are a disservice to the author and publisher. The goal here (I think) is for people to not only enjoy reading the translations, but for collectors, and those learning the language to find this relatively obscure title and buy copies from the publisher to read or collect dust or both.
        There is a saying in business: “Good advertising is never cheap; therefore never burn good free advertising.” How do you think; Viz, Funimation, etc got started? They started out doing fanlations/fansubs, got good at it, gained a fan base, then found someone crazy enough to put money down to start a proper distribution network and on and on.

        On another note, 68 shouldn’t be out until the 25th considering the release date fo 67 was the 18th, so Aereus, you get a break, the leaks or hacks aquired on baido screwed the timing up

        Reply
    2. Aereus Post author

      First off: Maybe I hold a different view than Thundercloud, but I want to believe he merely said some things in the heat of the moment. I certainly am not doing this for ego, nor am I aware of any nor seeking any sort of cult following. If TC truly does believe exactly what he says, then no. I don’t agree with it either. As you said, we aren’t entitled to anything.

      I started the LiveTLs on a whim, which eventually evolved into me joining the group. Originally I was just doing them for TL practice, but it seemed like people had a lot of fun with them, and I enjoyed seeing peoples reactions to all the antics in the series. So I have continued them. Should the need arise, I can discontinue them. And that isn’t meant as some sort of tantrum or threat—I don’t wan’t to see this become some kind of distraction or detriment to the actual releases when it is just meant to be for fun.

      On the otherhand, there is a well-established unwritten code of ethics that (most) scanlators abide by, and this clearly crosses that line. I find joy in spreading word of the series—in a respectful and proper way. And if I may bring ego into this for one moment—I do believe I try harder than pretty much any other scanlator I’m aware of to actually support the author. Adding the links for buying volumes to the site was something I pushed for doing. We also have news posts ahead of every new volume release to remind people when they come out. Most merely do lipservice to the author by having some stock footer in their credits about ‘supporting the author when available in their country’ … I find this to be an after-thought. Our ad insert shows where people can link to sites to buy the volumes (and we don’t use any sort of referral link, so there is no kickback incentive involved), and I’ve explained how it’s actually the cheapest way to support the author and how those sales matter for ranking the author/keeping them serialized.

      If I merely wanted to put words on a page, I could shit out a chapter in less than an hour. But none of the SFX would be translated, the legibility of the typesetting would be jarring, and the wording for the script would be inaccurate and not properly nuanced. Having another translator as a sounding board is also indispensable for accuracy and quality control. The end result would be something not as funny, not respectful of the large amounts of hardwork the author puts into the series, and not something I would find enjoyment in spending my time on.

      Not making an awful shit release is the least we can do for the author.

      Reply
    3. ThunderCloud

      A lot off straw man fallacy in that post.

      Anyway, there are a Few points I’d like to clarify:

      • I don’t think of Boku Girl as “our project, hands off!” If anyone / any group competent enough were to take over, I’d personally be totally cool with that.
      • I feel upset when a series I love gets a butchered scanslation. This is not confined just to series I’m working on. For example, I petitioned FwPA to pick up Koe no Katachi because that other release was shit.
      • I derive joy from knowing that readers are enjoying a high quality scanslation of an excellent manga. “joy of being able to spread the word of the series”? Are you ****ing serious? Butchering the 47th chapter isn’t going to help spread the word. What Aereus does (doing LiveTL threads and generating interest) is what spreads the words.
      • >>If someone’s already read the crap release, they are less likely to read our release. Even if they do, they’ll not enjoy it as much.
        >>Most manga aggregation sites will not update with our release when it’s ready, which leads to less exposure.
        >>Knowing that less people will care about our release is not exactly encouraging.
        >If you guys handled this admirably, you would have just cut your losses, yet you guys are conspicuously stating that you want fans to stroke your dicks egos.

        The more people that read the crap release -> The less people will get full enjoyment from reading Boku Girl. That was the main point I was trying to make. Is it surprising that demand drives supply? Do you keep uploading videos onto Youtube with 0 views? Knowing that people enjoy something I put a lot of effort into makes me happy and motivates me. If that makes me egotistic, then sure, call me egotistic.
      • If my use of “cease and desist” in the post triggered you, you can just read it as “stop being an asshole” instead.
      Reply
  4. TakahashiFan

    took a good look at the releases on baidu, looks like they were hacked out. the release date listed on the margin was 6/18 for 67. and the 68 thats floating around baidu looked like it was not finished yet

    Reply
  5. Viper

    Yeah I was very pissed off the moment I saw that first chapter “released” by that group so I can only imagine how you guys feel. I hope that you will release the chapters yourselves. The only way I can see to avoid them releasing more would be to stop the live translations (regrettable but that’s better then having them stolen) and keep your translations to yourselves untill the chapters are ready to be released

    Reply
  6. People suck.

    My sympathies on being treated this way… it really isn’t fair.

    From a practical standpoint only, not what’s fair or right, this reminds me a lot of the copyright wars. When you create a work, you should have the right (but people will argue all day long about the details and degree of that right) to control how that work is distributed, monetized, etc.

    In a fair world, that is. 🙁

    In the real world, people will do whatever the hell they want with it. Rights don’t matter at all… all that a creator can truly control is their own actions. Distribution: The only power a creator has is to beat them to the punch. Monetization: The only power a creator has is to make it more desirable for people to buy, donate, etc. And so on.

    I hope the LQ anon does stop, and I completely agree that it sucks if they don’t. But I don’t see any practical way forward other than to 1) suck it up and invent new curses to mutter every time you see the latest misappropriation of your work, 2) work with a team who has the free time to reliably beat them to the punch, or 3) say “fark this” and screw them over by discontinuing the translations (but those who are genuinely grateful for your work would become collateral damage).

    I think 1 would slowly burn out the good will of even a saint. I seriously wish I had the skills to volunteer for 2, but I’ll have to cross my fingers that others do. I really hope you don’t go with 3… but I think we’d all understand if you did.

    Anyway. If you made it this far, thank you for listening… and I wish you all the best.

    Reply
    1. Aereus Post author

      I appreciate the sentiment, but this skirts dangerously close to the hypocrisy line and cognitive dissonance. Scanlation stands on incredibly shaky ground, so to talk about rights, misappropriation and C&D and the like in relation to it is ironic to say the least. Which is why this whole thing ends up being such a delicate subject.

      At the end of the day what it boils down to is— my LiveTLs are rough and unfinished. They are not up to the standards I consider worthy of release. We would be having a different discussion had they been used for a quality release. But for them to then be taken as-is and put on the page in a slipshod manner is unacceptable to me. Should be unacceptable to him. And is an unacceptable event for a true fan of the author.

      If it comes down to it, I would rather discontinue the LiveTLs than see my translations used to disparage the series.

      Reply
  7. Moe Moe Kyun Kyun

    I, for one, would like to say that reading scalanlated manga with Comic Sans makes me throw up in my mouth. To say nothing about the general quality loss in the image.

    Reply
  8. Sommion

    Yeah that guy its the wort…I hate that shitty scans…and so bad Edited …Your version Aereus its the best. Plis, make your version of those chapters.

    Reply
  9. anon

    I’m not sure I understand what’s so egregious about this. Is it not better to have an easy-to-find placeholder for the chapters that have only been livetranslated until they can be done and replaced in higher quality, than nothing at all?

    Is it a pride/integrity thing, because they used someone else’s translations without permission? I honestly don’t see why this is such a big problem. Personally, I like having SOMETHING to tide me over until a series I love can be given the quality scanlations it deserves, which is why I tune in to the livetranslations you do.

    Reply
    1. Anon

      The liveTLs are exactly what is supposed to ‘tide’ you over. If there’s a shittily scanned and typeset “in-between copy” uploaded a major site, other aggregate’s bots will rip it and that will be the de-facto release in the eyes of a vast majority of readers.

      Plus using someone else’s translation without permission, especially one that hasn’t been QC’d, is a big deal. Don’t fucking do it.

      Reply
      1. anon

        Okay, I understand now. Thanks for explaining! Yeah, that’s very shitty that it works out that way.

        Reply
    1. Aereus Post author

      That’s the Chinese scanlation. Can’t exactly translate from Japanese with that…

      Reply
  10. DS25

    Yeah, the usual site only offers chinese translations.

    And I was waiting for your reaction about this new scan exploit. Apparently waiting was too much.

    Reply

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